A new Initiative

So I have a new initiative that I have just launched this weekend, but before that I wanted to talk about a little about what has happened to our friends at GW because what they have done pertains to what I am doing now.  I have been quiet on the trappings of GW for several years due to it being too easy to berate them and their anti customer practices. 

So our friends in Nottingham have decided in their infinite wisdom decided to scrap the whole game of WFB that we all know and, for all intensive purposes, love.  For those who have been hunting in South Africa for the past month, the Warhammer World was hit by a nuclear bomb or a meteor the size of New York and is no longer as it once was.  

What replaces the game of WFB is a skirmish game of basically the fantasy version of space marines, in the form of a game called "Age of Sigmar".  The game rules are basically a 5 page set of rules which is augmented by various elements in the form of "scrolls," and has most of the mechanics of 40K.  I have no problem with 40K but I don't want to play a fantasy version of it.  On top of the overly simplified rules, that get ever more complicated by these scrolls, the rule of "he who takes the meanest toys wins the game" is more blatant than any other time in GW's history.  Depending on your taste, the models are well done, but they hold no such drive for me to buy them.  That is not anything new as anything made for the 8th edition looked terrible.   As far as the old models that they were producing, from what I get from the website, all old stock of WFB is now being sold off.

Perhaps I was a bit too soft when I said that it was with infinite wisdom, how about infantile, as only kids would be interested in this drivel.  On top of that GW's exorbitant pricing is back in full force in that the starter set costs 125.00.  Everything else get ever more expensive as you get hooked.  You know how it works by now with GW if you have been a customer of theirs over the years. 

I think that I have not been a Fantasy customer for GW in quite a while as their new models are too ostentatious for my taste even before this major change.  What few items that I want to get will be from E-Bay from now on.  I would rather have those old models that are "not cool" any more than what they are producing.  Honestly with all of this I am more apt to say "So long and thanks for the fish."

Welcome to Classichammer:

So my new initiative is to start a website for folks who want to play previous editions.  I call it www.classichammer.com where I will be focusing on 4th to 6th for WFB and 3rd to 5th for 40K.  I may add some more editions, but honestly it is getting to a point of where I either am encroaching on other forums in the form of Oldhammer or to editions that I really don't care to get involved in, such as the 8th edition of WFB. 

This was an old project that I have alluded to for a while on this blog, and probably too cryptic for most people to understand what I was talking about.  It was part chance in that I wanted to start putting together this summer, and part because I saw some of the backlash from folks who hated AoS.  While not specifically caused by GW's decisions, I feel that this site will benefit from the angst directed toward them.  For that part I have to say "Thanks Games Workshop."

My plans are to do much more than the usual forum that most people have.  I want to try to have a method of locating opponents as well as a convention or a games day.  One step at a time however.  I encourage anyone who is interested, especially disgruntled GW customers who have large obsolete armies, to check it out. 

Alternative System: Fantasy Warriors

Well last weekend I managed to read through a new rules system called "Fantasy Warriors."  I is a game system that was originally created by Nick Lund of Grenadier Models, back in 1990.  These days a company called Mirliton has the rules as a free PDF.  You can get them here.  While they do have some additions, the rules really have not changed that much since when they were originally created. 

For starters I would have to say that Mirliton is very kind for doing this.  It is in the same thing as Mantic does with their rules, which is another system that I want to review as well.  I do like some of Mirliton miniatures out there, but not a whole lot of them.  Just a different style to what I like to see in a Model, I guess. 

How it works:

When putting together an army in Fantasy Warriors, you do things that are rather different than what I have seen in other systems.  You establish a command structure in your army and  break up your army in commands.  You have the main character as a warchief, which functions as the primary commander for the army, and is eligible to have his own command of troops.  After that you have battle leaders who are subordinate to the warchief but lead their own commands.  I didn't see any specific rules against a warchief commanding the whole army, however, I can see how that can get the army into trouble in this system.  Obviously a change in what people are accustomed to these days. 

The units are organized differently which effect their functioning through the game in that you have elite, veteran, average, poor and unpredictable as a quality, and than a type of disciplined, tribal, fanatic, and stupid.  The characters are rather different as well in that some characters can be bought that really only augment someone like a battle leader or warchief.  For instance a Battle Standard Bearer is just one guy that augments the battle leader, rather than being a separate character as in Warhammer Fantasy.  There are also more variety of characters that can be bought. 

On top of more and different characters, there are rules where you are eligible to scout and determine table sides and who has the option of going first.  These are basically dice roles, however, using units designed for scouting can augment that roll.  The catch 22 is that the scouting unit must be held back at the edge of the table basically when you start, and the whole command must scot, which is one of the reasons for multiple commands.  They also have rules for day and night combat which can be effected in this phase as well. 

Fantasy Warriors is a game that is a phase based rules system, like Armies of Arcana in that you do both sides phase before you move to the next phase of the turn.  The various different phases that you and your opponent move through in a turn in order are threat, shooting, movement, combat, new order, influence, and command test.  Most of these are pretty obvious phases of the turn.  I have a hard time believing that anyone who reads this needs to have the shooting phase explained to them, along with combat, and movement.  They have their own idiosyncrasies that make them different from other systems, and it depends on what you are looking for in a system as to whether you like them or not.  I will point out that to hit and wound are similar to Warhammer but your dice throw is modified by a few more factors.  The other phases of threat, new orders, influence, and command test do stand for a more in depth explanation. 

Before I get to that, I believe that one of the concepts of the system that needs to be explained first and foremost in that every unit has more or less a standing order once they begin the game that they are ordered to carry out.  They are attack, hold, and oppose.  Attack is basically like a unit with Frenzy in Warhammer in that the unit will always move to combat, multiple combats are not allowed in this game.  Hold obviously is an order where a unit will stay and defend their one spot, and react any opposing force once they are attacked.  Oppose appears to be more like an order of harassment where a unit is mobile and basically under your general control.  These orders can change once they are in contact with the enemy ranging from basically a counter attack to running away.  There is no official fleeing the unit is just removed from combat.  When you get the new order phase there is the time where you can re-evaluate the order that the unit has and change the standing order.  Of course it requires a dice roll and can be influenced by the commanders at hand. 

At the start of the turn, you have a threat phase, which is basically a psychology test to see if the unit is going to continue with their orders or route.  This can be modified by any number of factors. 

The influence Phase is where the battle leaders can step in and shore up a unit that is going to be removed from combat in the next turn. 

The command test is more or less a test on the individual parts of the army to see if they route when the battle is going bad from what I gather.  This is where separating commands is good in that one command can collapse while the others are still active. 

I am sure that I am missing some things but this is the gist of the game. 

Final Thoughts

I would have to say that this game is very clunky in terms of game play, and most likely considered by some as outdated.  Personally I find it an interesting game system and I would be interested in playing it.  However I would not put it on a as my most favorite games just yet.  This may change after I play it but there is a lot that I did not go over still even though we are at over 1000 words right now.  There is a lot of content and charts that are harder to memorize than what you have in Warhammer, and that is a worry.  Hard to believe but I found a game system more convoluted and complicated than Warhammer ever was. 

Alternative Systems: Armies of Arcana

 

Like many people I have had several months where I was not able to do much with my hobby.  It is not specifically because I did not have the time, nor initiative to do anything.  I have actually worked on getting a lot of my space marines built up and ready for priming.  However, we have had record cold even down here in the South of the US and good luck getting primer on anyone's models.  Now I have to look forward to getting pollen on my models if I go out and prime the models until the next month or so. 

On another note, I have been reading up on Armies of Arcana, which is the next installment of my posts on alternative systems.  Armies of Arcana is a system that I wanted to review for a while, and I would say that it is a system that does show a lot promise on many fronts, and provides a few interesting ideas. 

How it works

This is a game that is very different from the standard GW games on many fronts.  Instead of a turn system where you do all of your phases of the game and wait for your opponent to finish their turn, it is phase based system in that you each do your movement phase, and move on to magic, shooting, and Close Combat.  You roll who goes first per turn as opposed to at the start of the game.  Movement is virtually the same as in WFB of yesteryear, but you can skirmish any unit that you want and neither march nor charge moves are allowed.(Something that I will talk about later)  Magic is actually more like how 40k Psykers work but within the confines of one phase rather than throughout the game.  Shooting and Close Combat phases are more streamlined as opposed to GW's, where it is boiled down to one roll for every attack basically.  To wound rolls are more like modifiers to the to hit roll.  Other than that it is pretty similar to how WFB plays.  Fleeing works more like it did back in the 3rd edition of WFB where you actually have to kill everyone in a unit rather than just destroy the whole unit by outrunning them.  Catching up to a fleeing unit will not scatter them as in WFB but rather you get a free attack without any response. 

What I like

After reading through this game system, I really do like how they handled what is called "Step up" in WFB.  You are allowed to attack back but with a -1 to your roll.  I would equate this to a -1 to hit and you cant use any modifiers by your weapon.  It has been a while since I read the 8th edition of WFB, but I don't seem to recall step-up working like that, and honestly if it worked like that I would have no problem with it.  I am more intrigued as to how the phased based way of playing works more than anything else.  Everyone complains that your guys "just stand there and take it" when it is not your turn.  This is a way to alleviate that issue.  They also have a way to create that specific monster or army that is not already in the rules, and new armies are popping up every time from online.  Likewise they already have Roman and Greek army lists available, so if you ever wanted to see how your friends Greek army matches up against your Elves, there is a way to play that.  Most importantly, they are not using this book to sell miniatures like GW seems to do with their Basic Rule Book. 

What I don't like

I am not a fan of the lack of a marching or charging move.  That seems to me like it can get boring.  It seems that moving your normal move for a charge is unreasonable given that a charge is supposed to represent your troops running in to combat.  On another note they have their units move with more movement than what you see in WFB.  They have artillery shoot every other turn as a rule.  That seems unreasonable to me.  As much as I find it interesting that you only roll once when you attack, I think that it provides for not as much nuance as we used to have. 

Overall

Overall I would definitely like to test drive this set of rules from what I have read.  It has a lot of interesting ideas and concepts that I want to try. 

Happy New Year

With this new year, I took a look at what I was able to accomplish this year on the gaming front and it was rather slim.  I did play a few games of 40K and got more involved in that, however my painting did not go far, nor did my historical or fantasy gaming went far.  I have a few rule systems that I have not been able to make a review as I have promised as well as do much in the form of blogging.  With all of that in mind I have decided to have a few new year resolutions on the gaming front. 

1:  Figure out a way to play WFB from the previous editions:  I do have a few friends who like the game from previous editions more than what we have now.  I need to link up with them and try to set up a few games with them.  I have a few other ideas on this front as well.  I want to try to do a game a quarter if I can, but honestly I believe that I can do one per quarter of historical easier.  If I can do either I would be happy. 

2:  Actually Paint some models:  I have done almost no painting, which is mainly due to my current living situation is not that conducive to painting.  I will try to figure out something however.  My goal is to paint up my battle company of Space Marines, which has other problems than me not spending the time on them as I want to.  I will actually make them a FULL battle company as well, but for now I just got a few models that I am somewhat happy with after priming and base coating. 

3:  Read and review more alternative game systems:  This is just me finding the time to sit down and read the damn systems and write about them. 

4:  Blog more DAMN IT!  If I am doing my first three resolutions I will have plenty of things to blog about. 

Lets see if I am able to do it.  On another note I hit 10,000 hits on this blog.  I want to thank everyone for reading what I have to say.  I do appreciate that you are reading and a few are actually creating a dialogue.  That many hits after 2 years does not seems like much to some, but I consider it an achievement.  Thank You!

Apocalypse Gaming and handling big games

(Next time I am bringing my Wagner)

 

Well I had my first Apocalypse game the other weekend, and it was rather fun on average.  It was a 6k game with me and two other guys that had space marines, while the opposing force had two guys running a Tyranid force.  We played for four rounds after six hours and basically took turns wiping out one half of each side, with me in the center dealing with a few monsters.  I guess that Space Marines loss but it was one of those things where another turn and it would be a different story. 

All in all it reminded me of playing larger multi player games back in my days of playing WFB.  They are the fun to do on occasion but they have the same problems in my opinion.  Basically it comes down to how fast and comfortable of a player you are, in order to have an enjoyable game.  I would not call myself an expert, and I feel that I need some more experience in standard 40K before I take on another Apocalypse game.  Thus the reason why I don't recommend a game like this to anyone until they get experience in playing.  Playing fast and confident is a requirement in order to make the game go smoothly in a game like this where getting bogged down is easy to do. 

On another note, I am not sure that having different number of players is a good thing.  Usually when I play these games, I am usually ranking up against one guy and we never finish the game to the last model, so I rarely ever get to play other players in a game like this.  This is different, since I was in the center and attacking both opposing players at once.  The fun part is that I distributed playing against each other, but the bad news is that I have to vie for the attention of my opponent with my two other cohorts.  This lead to some confusion and having us wait on each other. 

All in all I would do it again, however like always, I want to try to do it with just me in command of the army.  It is one of things that partners in this situation causes hindrances to each other.  Like the old saying "Too many cooks spoil the broth."

Modeling Philosophy: Handling Doppelgangers in your army.

Over the past two months or so I have been very busy with other parts of my life and little for me to write anything down here.  Apologies for that, but I have not been resting on my laurels.  I have had a few games of 40K as well as find and buying up some 4th edition GW Fantasy Orcs.  In my recent forays into collecting these classic GW models, I have come across a few models that are multiples of each other.  That is rather normal given the ranges, however, my attempt is to avoid using the same model over and over again in your army.  It does tend to get redundant as well as boring painting the same damn guy.  In addition that it just is not what I want to collect in an army.  Of course I have a lot less of a problem if I can find no two alike guys for each regiment at least.  I can deal with a few of the same model in an army as opposed to a few of the same in each unit.  I can always say that there is "that guy" in each unit.  This comes to the concept of handling doppelgangers in your army.  I think that we do have a few trick depending on which kind of army that we are dealing with.

Army choice is something that I think can make a difference.  For instance any army that is either an undead army or fully armored army, as in Chaos Warriors, I believe that it should not that big of an issue.  I would still try to avoid redundancy when possible, but a skeleton is a skeleton.  They are by design uniform in appearance.  Zombies can be an issue, but can be overcome through creativity.   In the same idea, with uniform units like Elves, that are all kitted with the same uniform and helmet, I think that even in that situation it works.  Given that I am working on Space marines right now, I have to say thank god for power armor and helmets.

Painting may help out as well, but mainly for humanoids.  Basically changing the hair color is what makes the difference more or less.  This is something that should be used sparingly, however.  From my experience with my dwarves, even when you paint a face and beard a different color, they still seem redundant even with different bodies on them.  Thus the problem with flowing hair in my mind.  It makes the job harder to avoid doppelgangers, in my humble opinion.

Different manufacturers is a very good way in handling doppelgangers in my experience.  The hard part is finding a suitable manufacturer that is comparable to your collection.  With humans, I think that you can get away with a lot with the multitude of historical manufacturers out there, depending on what your tolerance is.  I have no problem with difference in height, however if they are supposed to be the same build, I expect them to be the same build.  I am not looking for freakishly shaped hands or very thin guys.  Basically I am not looking for Romans to look like these guys when the norm for every other manufacturer's Romans is as tall as the Dwarf's feather:

 

 

With all of this in mind I have come to a bit of a dilemma in some fashion.  The Orcs that I have been collecting have a good range, however, I seem to be having trouble finding a good variety on some units like the classic black orcs pictured here.  Some of these tricks will not work.  Painting is not an option, nor is their any other manufacturer's that I think will look comparable to these characters.(although I may be persuaded)  They don't have enough armor to hid behind like other models, so I guess that I need to be more creative with these characters, or do something like put them into regular units and find something else for Black Orcs if I must have Black Orcs.  Needless to say there is more for me to ponder with this army as I am collecting them.  Of course my knowledge on the orcs is rather scant during that time, so there may be more GW figs out there than what The Stuff of Legends has in their archive.  I believe that I have already found one big-un that is undocumented by these guys so hope springs eternal for the Black Orcs.  

New Games with Old friends

Well it has been a slow month for me so far with my miniature hobby.  However I was able to get a game in of 40K using the 6th edition last Sunday.  It is my first game and while interesting, we had a lot of distractions so it was not a great game to gauge whether it is an edition that I am fond of yet.  We were playing a 1K game and it took us over 4 hours to play.  One of the main distractions is that an old friend of mine dropped by the store that I have not seen in a few years. 

Honestly I was thinking of him as of late and wondering where had he been and if I should try to contact him.  It is kind of a chance encounter like what you read in the appendix of the LOTR with Gandalf and Thorin.  My fellow Roman antagonist for WAB told me last month that he was rather incognito due to real life issues that are occupying his time.  I know that he was not a fan of the current edition of WFB as I am, and had really not been active in any of the forums that he and I would frequent online.  As of late however he has been on TMP, so at least I know that he is still alive. 

My old friend and I of course struck up a conversation about 40K and WFB.  One of the topics of conversation was also the idea of trying to get together to play 6th edition once in a while, since we still had the capabilities to play the game.  Not to leave my opponent out in the cold, but he knew my old friend well and they conferred over an idea for a 40K apoc. game in the future. All in all it was a pleasant afternoon and needless to say I was glad to get out of the house for the time.  It is my hope that some good ole 6th edition game are on my horizon. 

Alternative Systems: Hostile Realms (Piquet)

I wanted to do a review of this system for a while.  Hostile Realms is a fantasy version of the regular game made by the company called Piquet.  Their website is here for anyone who wants to see it for themselves.  This is a game that uses a card based system to determine the flow of the game, in that a deck of cards is used to determine who and what is eligible to go for that turn.  For anyone who has played BattleMasters, I think that you get the gist as to how it works.  Also there is a system of pips as well to control the times.  I would imagine that you roll dice to determine how much of a different unit is allowed to function.  I have not looked at the cards, nor at the book as a whole to make a better description. 

It does sound like an interesting game and it does remind me a lot of BattleMasters from 20 years ago.  However, my experience over the last 20 years since playing BattleMaster has altered my view of war gaming in general.  I have a problem when it comes to a deck of turn card are being used in a war game. 

1:  Integrity:  While I would never would or have done it in BattleMasters, I can see someone literally stack the deck against an opponent.  Be that as it may, I would not be surprised that some people may do this.  Call me cynical, but I believe that a dice roll is harder to control or cheat with as opposed to a deck of cards.  I am not sure if this is a communal deck that is used, which would be my estimate but that is even worse in my mind.

2:  Portability:  While a deck of turn cards may not be that heavy or cumbersome, it is another damn thing that I am already toting and prone to forget as well.  I have a hard enough time remembering my measuring tape, what makes anyone think that I will remember to keep a deck of cards handy. 

3:  Sensibility:  This is not Magic:The Gathering or any other card game.  Perhaps that I am just biased on this issue but I just don't want to include cards into my war gaming.

4:  Necessity:  I honestly think that I can find a better way to do things than with a deck of cards that determine which does what.  I do like a concept of activation rolls or a more inclusive use of dice rolls to determine morale, fatigue, and competence.  A deck of cards is just too out there for my taste. 

Despite all of this that still stands for the reason why I don't like this part of the game system, I did read through the reasoning that the author produced to explain what they are doing.  He did point out why they used a card system, and honestly I do understand some of his points that he has.  Primarily what he is trying to do is to add randomness in to a gaming system that is more realistic than what is out there.  It is one of those things where I think that there is just a better way to do things than add a deck of cards to the mix.

Honestly it is one of those issues where I just don't want to spend a total for $40 to find out if I am right or wrong.  While I reserve the right to put it back on the list if I do end up playing a few games and actually like it I am taking it off of my list of alternative games systems which stands as follows:

List of Fantasy Game Systems:
1: Reaper Warlord
2: Kings of War (Mantic)*
3: Fantasy Warriors (Miltron)*
4: Armies of Arcana
5: Mighty Armies (Rebel Miniatures)
6: Hostile Realms(Piquet Master Rules)
7: Songs of Blades and Heroes
8: Rally Around the King
9: 100 Kingdoms*
10: For the Masses (Majestic 12)
11: No Quarter
12: War Engine/Shockforce
13: Pride of Lions
14: Battle Systems 2 ed.

On another note I have just received Armies of Arcana and once I have my other reading backlog caught up it is next in line for me to review.  From what I have looked at as I was flipping through the book, it looks very interesting to me.  I know that I have been a "Negative Nancy" on the past few reviews that I have done.  Hopefully this will be different in my next review. 

Inflation: Warhammer Style

First off, I don't want to make this a rant about the prices and break my promise on bashing GW.  I will get to the details on that later.  I wanted to talk about model inflation that we as war gamers experience from edition to edition when it comes to how our models stack up.   I was inspired by a few posts done a few months back that discussed the inflation that their armies have experienced from circa 1999 to now.  We can thank the blogger, The Army Collector, for the inspiration here.  Let me explain what I mean by Model Inflation and then proceed with an example.  It was something that interested me given my professional experience being in the financial world. 

What is Model Inflation:

The best and most plainly spoken definition that I have ever heard for Inflation is that "Your money buys less now than before."  This can be on the supply side of the price i.e. drought, production failures, etc., as well as on the demand side usually in the form the fact that there is more currency and thus more people who want to buy the item.  We usually see demand side inflation when a central bank "prints more money" for the economy.  Despite my academic credentials in Finance, it took me years after school to see this and understand this.  There is also Deflation which is the opposite event.  A rare event, however, it is known to happen even in our time.  The Housing market has experienced deflation in the United States over the past five years for example on the supply side, as well as a central bank reducing the amount of currency in an economy on the demand side.

For the usual gamer we experience price hikes, which we all are painfully aware of, however there is a bit of inflation that existing models experience over the years in that the models are worth less in points over the editions than when they were originally bought. Usually from the switchover from edition to edition your models have smaller point costs.  This usually has been a rather silent cost that no one really complains about on places like Warseer or B.O.L.S. yet can be just as expensive as the usual price hikes.  What I have bought in the 4th edition to play Warhammer, cannot be as extensive of an army in today's edition.(or as many people like to say "in today's money")  This is what I call model inflation.  Allow me to provide an example.

Applied Model Inflation:

Now I have a very good example to see the difference in my Dwarf army book from back in the 4th.(pictured above)  In the book there was a scenario called "Battle at The East Gate of Karak Eight Peaks."  It was a scenario for everyone to get a flavor for the game and the army.  In short, there was two forces lead by General level characters that totaled up to 3000 pts.  A force being besieged and one force relieving the besieged force, opposed by Orc and Goblin forces that are separated based on the four sides of the table that totaled 3000 as well.  The scenario is that the relieving Dwarf Force is being ambushed by the Orcs and Goblins.  The scenario is based on if the Dwarves can break out of the ambush and if not can the besieged Dwarf force get there in time to relieve the relief force. 

Included in the chapter is a suggested army list for the scenario.  A very useful piece of information to determine how GW was making you calculate your armies.  With that force I took the list and tried to match it to the best of my ability with what I could be able to make with the 6.5th edition army book for Dwarves that is still the current army book. (Pictured Below)

I had a few problems with matching exactly list for list.  Unfortunately there were more toys and choices that Dwarves had back then and that made a difference in my calculation.  A Dwarf character was able to take something called the Master Rune of Death, (I don't know why they did not bring it back as a Killing Blow rule!) Runesmith's could take more toys back in the 4th, and Hammerers could elect to not take Great Weapons.  For that I could not make as accurate of an army list as I had wished.  However I believe that I did get close to it.  What I have as follows is a table of the base points for each unit and the differences:

Dwarf Inflation Sheet
Unit	4ed Points	Amendments	8ed Points	% Reduced
King Belegar's Force
Dwarf Lord	505		266	0.53
Longbeards	227		165	0.73
Thunderers	260		244	0.94
Crossbows	278		212	0.76
Total Force	1270		887	0.70
Lord Duregar's Force
Dwarf Lord	410		326	0.80
Army Battle Standard	206		125	0.61
Runesmith	246		145	0.59
Dragon Slayer			115
Slayers	368		114	0.62
Hammerers	222	20	154	0.64
Warriors	271		200	0.74
Total Force	1723		1179	0.68
Total Army	2993	3013	2066	0.69

The total army back then was 2993 but I had to add 20 pts. for the Hammerers to have Great Weapons to bring it up to 3013.  I also gave the top Dwarf Lord a Master Rune of Kragg the Grim in exchange for the Master Rune of Death.  The total army in today's edition is 2066, over 30% reduction of points.  Needless to say there are great differences in what kind of army that I could put together now as opposed to back then using the same models.  I would also point out that this army would be illegal at this point level.  Given the 8th edition rules, you would need to play a larger game to fit the characters in. 

The biggest difference is in the magic items.  We are spending over 1300 points on characters alone in this list, and that is not counting champions which were part of the character allotment back then.  The majority of those points were spent on magic items and not on the character themselves.  If you ever wonder why they called 4th edition hero-hammer, this may answer it for you.  I also calculated how many models in this army which is quite striking as well.  There were 43 in each contingent for a total of 86 models for this army. 

Now it may be just me but an army of 86 feels rather small to me now as it did back then.  Also the units were very small as well.  The Slayers (including Dragon Slayer), Hammerers, and Longbeards were 10 models each.  The missile troops were 16 each, and the warriors came up to 20.  Ironically there were no musicians however everyone had a standard.  Given the lack of troops in the 4th edition list, I was rather glad for the inflation when I came back in the 6th edition.  They actually felt like actual armies rather than just your character and a few beer buddies and hangers on. 

Honestly I could see doing a 3K game using this scenario very easily and I wished I that I was able to find a willing Orc and Goblin opponent to play this with.  However the army that I would be using for this would be more like 140 models or so easily and using two lords.  I would not specifically say that we are going to get significantly more inflation down the line in this magnitude.  Magic items would be what I would be looking at if that happens again.  Given that I am only really interested in playing with 6th edition rules, I really don't care how much inflation happens in subsequent edition. 

Becoming an Incurrable Collector

Everyone who reads this proabably is a collector of minatures in some form or fashion.  However I doubt that most people consider themselves purely a collector without any of the gaming dimensions involved in the hobby.  I for one was one of those people for years.  There was one person who on a forum stated that they were just there to collect the miniatures.  I thought that he was nuts in just collecting for the sake of collecting.

Now-a-days, I tend to see more of his point.  A few weeks ago, I took an inventory of what I still have after selling several armies from my WFB collection.  I would have to say that what I have left over is really more of a collection rather than a set of armies.  I still have my dwarf army pictured here, which I don't plan to sell or get rid of ever.  It has just too much sentemental value to me.  Along with that I do have enough for a High Elf, Empire, and Beastmen army, but overall everything else is just some odds and ends from the lines of Chaos, Vampire Counts, Bretonnians, Dark and Wood Elves, and Orcs and Goblins that I have refused to sell as of now.  Now that I am still holding on to these models, I am thinking that I have more or less passed into being a collector more than anything else with my WFB miniatures.

With that, I am now figuring out what to do with these models.  Well for starters I do plan to get some of these painted for the sake of display if anything.  I have no idea if they will ever see the light of a gaming table, but I really dont care any more.  I am ever looking for a new system that will work with these guys.  I believe that my Empire and Bretonninas may end up on a gaming table, but most likely they will be facing the hordes of humans rather than something more from the realm of fantasy, and in a historical set of rules. 

What few miniatures that I do buy now are mostly the older metal models as stated here more or less.  Most of the older models just have the classic look that I want to collect.  It may be that it is a bit of nostalgia creeping in, but I guess that it is the way of a collector to look for something more esoteric and something that is no longer made any more.  As ever I am suprised to how great the older GW metal models are holding up compared to what we have now.  I am waiting on John Larroquette to reconstitute his "Incurrable Collectors" show and knock on my door. 

I have to say that the guy at White Knight has a great idea in filling out a collection of models by making his own.  Some of his models are great, whereas some are just not my style.  There are a few ranges from GW that I wished that they went further with, but did not.  WH's idea is something that I may think about at some point in time when I am better at sculpting than now.  I doubt that I will ever get to a point where I can be as good as he is, but it is a minor dream right now I guess. 

Alternative Systemes Review: Horde of the Things and Impetus

In my attempt to find an alternate gaming system to Warhammer Fantasy Battle, I have started reading through some of them when I can find a free online system, or read through their online introduction.  There are around 16 gaming systems from my previous post, (located here for reference) which is a lot to go through.  Therefore I am going to winnow out a few that I know are not going to be what I am looking for. 

Well I went through most of the gaming system called Horde of the Things (HOTT), and it is a game that is more align with Warmaster than Warhammer.  The authors of HOTT are the ones who also created De Bellis Antiquitatis (DBA) and De Bellis Multitudinis (DBM), and thus run very similarly to these ancient games.  The rules can be found here a little bit down the page, and for personal use only.  DBA, DBM, HOTT and Warmaster are all games where stands are use to represent your troops, most likely units that are of battallion strength or larger.  Given that I am not intersted in playing a game right now that uses stands to represents regiments of troops, I am not going to spend a whole lot of time evaluating those type of systemes when I see them. 

These rules may be an interesting alternative to Warmaster, however I am not that much into Warmaster and thus am not really into playing anything like it.  I am sure that these are great system's to play, and I like some of the original ideas about the game, but I don't have that much interest in playing with these systems.  They are brands of gin when I am a scotch drinker.  Impetus also falls into this category as well and thus is something that I will most likely not be intersted in playing.  So that is two gaming systems that I can take off of the list right now that I will proabably not be evaluating to the level of test gaming. 

Of course this is only what I have read, and I know that most people think that this is rather harsh to do to a game system.  Problem is that if I dont have interest in the system, how can I sell someone to play a game that I really don't care to play.  However the list is by far an extensive and distinguished list. 

List of Fantasy Game Systems:
1: Reaper Warlord
2: Kings of War (Mantic)*
3: Fantasy Warriors (Miltron)*
4: Armies of Arcana
5: Mighty Armies (Rebel Miniatures)
6: Hostile Realms(Piquet Master Rules)
7: Songs of Blades and Heroes
8:  Rally Around the King
9: 100 Kingdoms*
10: For the Masses (Majestic 12)
11: No Quarter
12: War Engine/Shockforce
13: Pride of Lions
14:  Battle Systems 2 ed.

There are a few others that I have gone through initially and some look great while some are proabably not going to be ones that I am intersted in.  Of course I will post my thoughts on these systems as I go thorugh them.

My problem with Finecast

I have heard the horror stories as every one else has about fine cast.  They are prone to melting in the trunk of your car.  They are riddled with bubbles so much that GW made their own liquid filler that you have to buy. (I would call that insult to injury)  They come with bent items and given the strenght of the material are prone to breakage.  The obvious cheaper material of finecast yet more expensive cost of them.  All of these issues would normally would detract me from buying the miniatures.  However I originally thought that they dont effect me nearly as much as they would have in the past.  Mainly due to the fact that I am not buying anything new from the lines. 

I have decided to go for older models on average for most of my armies that I do still collect, so I should not care about finecast, and I really don't care.  Everything that I collect for my fantasy armies will be from an older edition to match more easily historical miniatures.  However I am not just collecting only fantasy miniatures.  I am still in 40K a little bit, and with the new edition I will proabably will be playing that more often than not.  The problem that I have with GW is that instead of re-vamping new miniatures with finecast so we collectors know which model has which material, they have taken existing sculpts and casted them in finecast as well, as with these guys that I was going to add to my army:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440176a&prodId=prod1160097a&rootCatGameStyle=

This is what I really dont like what GW has done with their policies.  I can understand using finecast on new sculpts, but this really casues trouble as to what exactly you are buying on the secondary market.  Along with that I have been informed that stripping off paint from finecast is a chore and most likely will ruin your model.  Usually you may have to worry that someone is giving you a counterfit sculpt from time to time made from this material, but here GW has done it for you.  Now if I want to make sure that I am getting the model made out of the right material, I have to see them stripped.  I have to say thank you for making my life harder GW.  Ironically I really can't afford to be one right now, but in the event that I do become a customer once again, it will be of the classic editions and not of any of this crappy finecast that GW seems to think is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  I will still buy the plastic units from time to time, albeit sparingly.

As promised I am trying to limit my rants on GW from now on so this will have to do for the next six months.  I will try to make it to the end of the year folks, I will really try.  Hopefully I will have some good things to say about 40K when I get the rulebook.  So far it sounds like a game that I may be interested in.

Fathers and Sportsmanship

Well today is Father's day here in the States, and I have been contemplating the different gifts that a father can bestow on their children.  A father is not just the guy that makes sure that the power bill is paid on time but from my experience has the ability to get you to the other side of adulthood, and offer a perspective that a mother on average is unable to fulfill, even after you reach adulthood.  One of the big areas that I see fathers affecting their children with is sportsmanship.  Regardless of an athletic sport or just moving chess pieces, sportsmanship is crucial to most past times and for that matter most of life. 

Now I did play little league baseball and soccer when I was a kid, and I enjoyed playing baseball.  However I did not follow through with it afterwards in life.  I was more interested in camping, hunting and fishing more than general athletics and I lettered in Band in High School. (Lettering in Football would not have been hard for me at my school actually.  It was a terrible team when I was there and I was a tuba player in Marching Band, and some on the tuba line did quit and joined the defensive line while was there.)  I did play Lacrosse in college which was just out of pure fun.  I cared less if we lost and I was on teams that we did, but the fun of hitting someone else with a stick legally outweighed the score of the game, when we were keeping score.   I still watch a fair amount of sports but where I really learned sportsmanship was when I was playing board games with my Father.  Most specifically this:

That's right, my first foray into war gaming was Axis and Allies.  I remember many a game played by the two of us.  I learned the most about sportsmanship from these games than any other place.  My father would soundly beat me every time for the most part.  I would range from being in tears all the way to snippy at times playing him.  Here is the difference though.  Mom hated the game, but she would always ask how we did.  After every loss she would give my dad a cross look, as if telling him "Let him win for once."  He would reply verbally "He is getting good, I almost lost to him today."

I can't tell you how glad that he would always play to win and actively beat me.  It taught me humility and most importantly to be gracious in victory like he always was.  One thing that I did not learn was to be more gracious with rules disputes.  I really do have a hard time being amenable when I am disputing a rule that I know is right.  Since then I have shown frustration quite a few times after a game which I do regret quite a bit in retrospect, but I don't consider myself a bad sport, and given the atmosphere it can be different for me.  I take tournaments not nearly as seriously as campaigns for example.  Which leads me to the bad sportsman out there.

I certainly do understand being frustrated and short with people at times, and I very much try to avoid it at all costs.  However as this thread from Warseer shows there are people who really needed to be taught good sportsmanship:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?339929-Physical-aggression-and-fighting-in-a-GW-or-flgs

I would assume that most of these stories are crap, but like many stories that are too absurd to be true, I am sure that there is a kernel of truth to be sure.  I have seen dice being thrown, I have seen people who have packed up in a huff, and I have seen people carry on a rare occasion.  I can tell you that my father would not have put up with that crap at all from me.  People are people and you do eventually find a few jerks in your life.  Hopefully they do learn what good sportsmanship is and practice it, but I do wish that they had a father figure like mine who would have taught them good sportsmanship practices.

Bashing GW is just getting too easy.

While in the process of moving, I noticed that I have sold over half of my collection that I had in boxes.  The good news is that hopefully those miniatures will see the light of day with someone who will appreciate them.  The bad news is that I am compelled to sell them as opposed to using them for what I originally was planning for them.  I guess that is a good thing that I sold all of my current models given my lack of enthusiam for the game and the company in general.  This is really for both 40K and WFB. 

I could write several articles as to how I hate what the current management have done to a company that I have liked and have done business with in the past.  Looking at the bloggers that I do follow, there is plenty of people who have what seems no end in sight of rants ranging from the failings of finecast to the annual June price hike from the wisemen in Nottingham.  I am sure that there will be plenty more to come in the future. 

However that is getting to be booring for me overall.  I have tried to limit the "I hate GW" rants on this blog for the most part as of late.  Don't get me wrong, I have a bevy of complaints about GW, including their foray into finecast which I really have been silent about.(which I may still do a Finecast rant for several reasons)  I may do a rant from time to time, but I have other issues to deal with now-a-days than the obscene prices and the apparent lack of quality and service that you get from GW.  The only hope is that the current management get sacked and a massive re-organization of the company.  I may start paying more attention after that if it ever happens. 

Perhaps this is my real life interfering with my hobby life.  Right now I am focused on other issues and my other hobby that I can do actually.  As of right now I really can't even paint unless I figure out a new arraingment at my new place.

Kazad ai-menu! (The Dwarves are upon you!)

As promised a month or so ago, I decided to make a few comparison shots of some of my GW figures over the years.  I am going to start with my first love, the Dwarves.  I started these guys back in the heady days of the mid 90's.(specifically 1994)  In my collection I really have three distinct lines that I have out there.  Given the merging of Marauder Miniatures, I will just characterize them based on the edition that they came out or the closest editions.  What I want to do with these pictures is to help me figure out whether I want to continue with my idea of using the 7th edition (well usually called 6.5 as well given that they came out earlier than the 7th) models in my collection.  If I really have lost interest in that line of models, I dont see a reason why to keep them anymore.  Without further ado here are the models that I brought out based on the edition used.  At the end I did take the caliper to them and have the results of my measurements below as well. 

Dwarves Over the Years

These are some of my 4th edition models.  I have sold off about 1/3 of my collection from that time, mainly from the look of some of the models that I am not interested with much any more and also because of the fact that I have just too damn much of one model.  I did not have much in the form of depth on the bench with this edition.  I really do love these models, but mainly as character models in my armies. For example, that fully painted handsome devil on the near left, is my thane of pain.

These are the models of my main line army from the 6th edition.  I really do like these models mainly due to their functionality and versatility.  I will talk about this later but I have no problem with the "monkey hands" that everyone incessantly complains about with this edition.  When I got a good hold of them, I really liked working with these guys.  From my experience, they fit really well with my 4th edition Dwarves. 

While technically from the 6th edition, they came out just prior to the 7th, and part of the joke in Dwarven circles as Dwarves 6.5.  I have put these guys together, and I am still rather undecided as to whether they will serve as a functioning wing of my Dwarves.  Unlike in the two previous editions, this army is significantly different in looks so much that they really dont fit side-by-side with previous editions.  This means that they would have to be a separate army. 

Now for the Comparison

The following pics are my comparison shots, rather self explanatory so I will leave the repotage out of the pics.  The commentary will come later on. 

Now this following pic is one with one of my Romans from Warlord Games, just for laughs.  I know that there are some discrepancies between historical miniatures and fantasy miniatures, and that Romans tended to be on the shorter side and thus modeled by some to be shorter, but this is rather rediculius.  From my Calculation of the models without the base, a Dwarf is about 4'7" or so.  Just by looks that would make that Roman no taller than 5' or so.  That would make Napoleon a LARGE guy for during the Roman Times.  I really do find that hard to believe that the Romans were that short given that the Greeks were as short if not shorter and they ranged around 5'4" or so last time that I looked.  It really does make me wonder if Warlord made their Romans more for 25mm playing initially. 

Comparison Stats

I also decided to do some comparison statistics with my models.  I dont really know how to import a table just yet onto one of these posts so please bear with me on this one.  Height is self explanatory for the model itself, but I am just measuring top of head gear to bottom of base.  Width was from Arm to arm, and if different the widest part on that axis in parentheses.  Girth is how I measure from front to back  at the widest part of the beard.  I also did the hands with or without a weapon in hand in both width of hand and length of hand.  All of these numbers are in mm. 

Body Dimensions

Edition:                                  7th          6th          4th

Model Height:                        25           25            24

Model Width:                         17(20)    20            16

Model Depth:                         12           11            10

With Hand weapon

Hand Lenght:                           3             4              4

Hand Width:                            3             4              4

Without Hand Weapon

Hand Length:                           4             4              4

Hand Width:                            2.5          4              4

A note on the 4th Edition measurements, they were the most wildly varied of the three whereas the 7th and 6th are very consistent concerning the body measurements.  It is proabably due to me not using any poses that have the arms tucked down in a ready position rather than in a heroic upright position.  Honestly I dont think that I can find one of those models if I wanted to.  I will have no problem standing by the measurements on the hands, which were eaiser to do than expected. 

What did suprise me was the hands being that much different in size, and yet that consistent between the previous two editions.  Likewise how different the variability in bodysize in the 4th edition also suprised me as well.  What also suprised me what the consistency in the height of the models.  I think that the comparison shots show that any variances in height is based solely on the headgear of the models and not on the projected height of the models.  This is odd since everyone bemoans the fact that GW has been making bigger models, which includes me on this.  Perhaps that this is a Dwarf Thing in that the size comes from a thicker and bulkier plastic model rather than a taller model. 

What to Do with the new Models?

Honestly, doing this comparison and subsequent measurements have raised more questions and uncertainty in general than answered any of my questions.  When I was putting them together, I really didn't like the general bulkiness of the model, yet when I did the measurements there was not that much difference.  Admittingly I only measured a few points on the miniature which does not take into consideration other points that could show how bulky the model is.  Unfortunatelly even a milimeter difference can cause a big change in the look of the model, which should make sense on a 28mm miniature.  I know that I hate the look of the warmachines that are in this edition in question, and what looks like a monopose of the rank and file with the models does not help out either. 

 I think that I can kit bash the old 6th edition models for some variety for a Great Weapon that would give me the almost the same thing with a 7th model, but I can actually move the left arm around.  The problem is that it is a dis-continued item so what I have is what I have unless I get lucky on E-Bay.  Also I saw and I believe still have some awesome looking pictures of dwarfs that were greenstuffed to look like Ironbreakers from these guys.  One ray of hope is that I have what looks like four peanut butter jars full of Dwarf parts.  One is admittingly my bit jar, but the rest is all new dwarfs.  It will take me a while to run out of Dwarves when I start getting them up and running. 

The other good news is that may be able to find some 4th ed. miniatures out there that are not as flamboyant and can fit into the unit without looking like a character.  Not exactly the easiest but better than nothing.  Also I have not taken a look at Wargames Foundry, or Mirliton's lines and see if they match the same dimensions as GW.  Bugman's said that Foundry are supposed to be larger, however they are comparing a Slayer to a fat dwarf in the pic.  Unfortunatelly I want to see this for myself with what is supposed to be a regular with a regular.  Nevertheless, hope springs eternal on that front, and I saw online that Militron does have crewmembers for cannons and Stonethrowers.  That is something that I really do want to find since I do lack viable variety in models for my artillery crew.  I cant remember right now if Foundry has any warmachines.  Even if they dont quite match up, it would be better than nothing for a new crew.  I have not been impressed with any other manufacturers out there. 

All in all, it is looking worse and worse for the 7th edition that I do have.  Perhaps one or two of the thinner characters may pass muster for me, but I expect to be selling my inventory when I get  a chance to move them, unless I have a wild mood swing which I doubt will happen.  If anyone is interested, please let me know and I will provide you an inventory of what I have. 

"A date which will live in Infamy"

According to the story as told to me.  In the span of 24 hours 70 years ago, my Grandfather went from mooring his ship to picking up bodies from the harbor.  From never shooting in anger, to knocking down 7 planes in the span of four hours as the shooter in the battery. From being just a damn kid from the fields, to a veteran in two hours.  From waiting for the launch to go to church at 0800hrs to being thrown off of his boat from the concussion of the Arizona in the span of 20 minutes.  From being at peace to being at war in a blink of an eye.  Reflecting on this day, it should amaze us how quick things change when they do. 

A bit of yellow journalism

Well, I was contemplating the next post as I am currently running out of a few regular posts to do, and the intersection of my wargaming hobby and the real world found a dark corner today.  I was online for my daily read through Warseer and I found this post. 

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325498

It is also linked to this post from this blog.

http://cadia122.blogspot.com/2011/11/bad-journalism.html

The synopsis of these posts is that a reporter went to a 40K tournament and did a story on it for a greek publication.  Sad to say, this story was clearly a hit piece on our hobby, and from the second post it was even more sarcastic that protrayed in the english translation.  This woman did interview several of the participants that came to this event as well and they did not help the situation if they were accurately quoted and translated.

Honestly I have no idea whether this is an accurate translation or just someone trying to cause a fuss just because they were boored on a Wednesday night.  Since the second link is one of the guys in the picture, and he took the time to do a translation, I have a hard time believing that someone would take the time to translate and cause this uproar if it is not an accurate translation.  Now, some hippy reporter in Greece really should not bother me and usually it does not, but I do have some problems with this article.  This article is laced with insults ranging from the usual to the more obscure and more potent about gamers, expressed below.   

Wargamers are Shut-in Geeks

A common sterertype that all wargamers get from time to time.  Anyone who spends a lot of their lives gaming especially in their adolescence have experienced this bias.  Some of it may be founded and some of it can be unfounded.  I would have to say that I really did not have a problem with this since it just indicated to us her bias.  It told me her type real quickly as one of those judgemental, pushy, people that will denegrate someone just to make them feel better.  Anyone that has gone to high school has experienced these people.  If it was just this I would have dismissed her and not even write this post. 

Wargamers don't think

She really disapproved of the fluff of the 40K universe, and though that anyone who thought it through would also approve of her disapproval.  Therefore anyone who liked the 40K fluff did is not a thinking person, even though there were plenty of highly educated people at the tournament she stated.  In addition she also made sure to insult the british with her disdain for the 40K world.  I don't remember if I have ever stated this, but I cant stand the fluff that GW produces.  So painting a brush on all of us based of the fact that some of the people like the drivel that GW puts in their books certainly annoys me.  It makes me wonder if she saw a couple of guys playing a game of Armies of Arcania, which apparently has almost no fluff, and would still have the same attitude.  Somehow I think that she would disapprove based on the concept that wargaming fosters warmongering in her mind.  This closed mindedness that if you are not enlightened enough to be a left-winged community organizer, you are dumb as a fence post really gets under my skin.  World view is not an indication of intellect!

Wargaming Promotes Nazism?

That is a salient point of the article that either you are a Nazi sympathizer or a sympathizer in training.  Now this was very insulting to me on several levels becaue of the context. Apparently, this problem is rampant here in America.  Now, it has been a long time since I have been to the hazing rituals to join the wargaming community, but I don't seem to recall them including getting nazi tats.  All of it was hersay from what I gathered from the article, or her perception based on the loosely on the iconography that is in the GW fluff that she despised.  Throwing the Nazi word around was usually a cardinal sin for the media to use without evidence.  So not only insulting the gamers but Americans, and of course anyone conservative.  To be honest I have seen all walks of life play this game from the very hippy liberal, to the most libertarian.  I really don't check their political card at the start of the game to see if they are someone that I care to associate with, since I never thought that it mattered.  Apparently it does to this woman.


This entire article was decrying the zenophobic attitude of the gamers, but I wonder if they were trying to single out these gamers for their own political dialogue that is happening in Greece.  Remember that this was a published article in a newspaper so I am assuming that an editor actually read the story like you see in All the Presidents Men.  Clearly I get from this article that 40K gamers are a bunch of rich nazi's that have too much time on their hands.  With the strife that they are having in Greece, denegrating people will not end well for Greece, or for anyone else that starts this kind of attack.

My apologies for taking this post into a political realm, and perhaps making this more than just a reporter being short sighted and meanspirited.  It is my hope that no one takes this article seriously, but it does poses the question what is this world coming to when a fictional game can be taken in this light.  I have a hard time seeing this woman denegrating recreational sex or drug use, so why should she or anyone else give a damn what someone does in their spare time.  Add this to my musical hobby, where it is apparently illegal to make quality instruments here in the US regardless of the paperwork(Google Gibson Guitar Raids if you have no idea what I am talking about).  It makes me wonder if I will be running out of hobbies in the future, and when that happens wait and see how expensive the damn models will be then.  I guess that I should go out to the shooting range before that is not allowed either.